Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 11th November 2023 @ 15:00 UTC

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
15:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   • CCS Wallet Incident #916
   • ArticMine & JEhrenhofer on the CCS wallet hack
   • Jberman/Kayabanerve presentations @ cakewallet Chicago meetup
   • FluffyPony resigns from Core
   • Proposal: disband Core
   • Proposal: New CCS Wallet Setup with Collateral
   • MoneroKon teams funding platform
     News: Monero Observer - Revuo Monero - The Monero Standard - Monero Moon
4. CCS updates
   a. Add retroactive funding proposal for FCMPs
   b. dangerousfreedom - wallet work
   c. Core Monero Concepts
   d. escapethe3RA Monero Observer maintenance (2023 Q4)
   e. Form Nonprofit Assocation for MoneroKon
   f. erc: ccs for getmonero and weblate
   g. Monero Selfhosted View-only Web Wallet (with received transaction Telegram/Email/SMS/Discord/Webhook alerts)
   h. CCS Coordinator
   i. v1docq47 - monerotopia 2023 (part 2) and monerokon 2023 voiceovers and working on xmr.ru
   j. jeffro256 full-time dev 2023Q4
   k. hinto-janai - full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)
   l. selsta part-time monero development (3 months)
5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon 2023
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
6. Open ideas time
7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Previous meeting including logs

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Any suggestion containing the word "multisig" is purely hypothetical/fantasy until it is proven to be "known secure". Following that, drastic UX improvements are needed.

[plowsof]

a summary was created by monero.observer

Logs

< plowsof > Meeting time #920

< plowsof > Greetings

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > hi hello

< binaryFate > hi

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > hey

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > greets

< r​brunner7:monero.social > hello

< nioc > hi

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > nice to see people arriving, so usually we'd spend the opening 15 mins or so on recent events then dive into the CCS ideas list, however, until we have a path forward i can't see us getting to the ideas.

< c​trej:matrix.org > hello

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > ideas first

< s​packle_xmr:matrix.org > hello

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > The agenda/goal of this meeting should be to help clarify where Core and the community are at in terms of short / long term solutions for a path forward, whilsts disrupting Moneros development as little as possible.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > short term > get ball rolling. devs need to eat

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > long term (2-4 weeks) setup infra for funds moving forward

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Hi

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > I say, proposals first. Im nit worried about an empty wallet

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the Monerokon events team have went there own way for funding (and target a return to the CCS in spring~ depending on how things are resolved) - their latest example https://funding.monerokon.com/

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i am multisig agnostic, doesnt exist :(

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 🔜

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Reminder that the MAGIC Monero Fund was unaffected by the CCS wallet theft. People can apply now. The main downside for applicants is that they have to KYC to receive money: https://monerofund.org/apply

< r​ucknium:monero.social > (Donors do not have to KYC. But if they have USA tax liabilities, then they can make the donation tax deductible.)

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i await MRL's discussions on multisig (mentioned here) https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20231108#c301310 ( i also know that jeffro256 is building something for the UX, rbrunners MMS and semi related tobtoht has offline signing via QR's on his todo list / has already made progress)

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Hi

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Community highlights:

< r​ucknium:monero.social > If the CCS will again use escrow, then the process to create and manage the wallet should be documented publicly. No more security through obscurity.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > soon

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > hello

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Giant Pink Elephant = general fund

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Hi Hinto

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Ccs wasnt even 2600xmr. Nearly 2000 of that was never to be claimed

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > are we able to get a clarification of where binaryfate is regarding a short term solution operation 'the show must go on' - where a seperate ccs wallet is created and luigi is topped up to make payouts? or how the community would feel about this?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > or if not specifically that, whatever is on your mind

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > I think bf is a no go after speaking with others

< binaryFate > clarify please

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > I vote plowsof sucks it up for now

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Plowsof Monero bank

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > You hold all the money. In a solo wallet. Need to fix that first

< selsta > it might be better to have the general fund as a separate discussion

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > would you be willing to take on more responsibility temporarily by 1) creating a 'secure' ccs wallet (if so, consider Ruckniums points of disclosing where possible the measures taken to ensure that it is secure) and 2) send funds from this new wallet on to luigi

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Bothering you for payouts in every situation is less than ideal

< binaryFate > what is community view on luigi1111 doing it instead of me?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > No

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > not solo. Worst opsec. Gone til thanksgiving. Nah

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > OPSEC.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > multisig signer? Ya

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > opsec can be fixed if the steps of creating/securing are agreed/disclosed right?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > <b​inaryFate> what is community view on luigi1111 doing it instead of me?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > P l o w s o f

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Not luigi

< c​trej:matrix.org > whatever we do, we need a short term solution to feed the devs

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > ideas time

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > let's go

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Possible donor's thought process if luigi creates and manages the main CCS wallet: "They lost a lot of the money I sent to help improve Monero. Did they do anything to regain my trust? No. They are just doing the same thing."

< nioc > luigi is fine by me, does anybody think that no lessons have ben learned?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > no

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Hes gone til thanksgiving, cant do forensics

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > no trust

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Eff that

< t​uxsudo:tux.pizza > Luigi shouldn't be allowed to handle anyone else's money ever again, lol. The setup for the wallet was extremely careless for someone in such a position

< nioc > we have very few from core actually doing things

< r​brunner7:monero.social > On the other hand, we still don't have the slightest clue how luigi was targeted, right? Maybe that's reason enough to choose somebody else for the time being.

< v1docq47[m] > hi, sorry for delay

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Imagine if plowsof went on a haitus/vaca after, and left his pc behind.. again

< nioc > ofrn, why would you be traveling with a secure pc?

< nioc > rbrunner good point

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Usually when these things happen, the person responsible should simply leave their position, resign without being asked by the community. There are mistakes

< c​trej:matrix.org > stupid question, but cant we use a ledger or trezor while we figure out multisig proper?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Suggesting luigi, is pretty funny. @bf

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Why dont YOU suggest plowsof? Sus

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Hope nobody is on a boat rn

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Yes

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Plowsof has one

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Yeah good point

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > luigi was OK handling a secondary wallet last time i checked in. and for the balance to be below a certain threshold at any time (but enough to handle 1~months of payouts)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > <n​ioc> ofrn, why would you be traveling with a secure pc?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Secure?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > We have servers running 16.04

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > a hardware wallet would have defeated the evil hackers

< r​ucknium:monero.social > The best short term solution may be direct funding to workers' XMR wallets. The CCS website would probably have to be coded a little different to scan for multiple view keys.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Core needs to use that GF to deal with infra.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > they dont need to be bank tellers

< nioc > give the wallet to a trusted person but don't tell anyone so nobody wpuld know who to hack

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Ok

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Project decoy

< c​trej:matrix.org > If someone from the community is skilled in hardening a PC (removing intelME etc.) I would highly appreciate a guide or a link collection; both for my own setup as well as hardening other community members setups

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > I think the point rbrunner makes is important. You don't know how Luigi has been targeted. Personally I feel good about Luigi, but when these things happen, the person responsible should leave

< selsta > luigi can for example use a hardware wallet for a hot wallet to payout devs while the cold wallet that gets the actual funds are in someone else's hands

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Luigi disappeared forn3 months

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And didnt tell anyone their money was gone

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Til LONG after it was spent

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > tobtoht shared the "ultimate" guide on securing a laptop ceetee (it involves breaking it open and adding some wires) https://osresearch.net/

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Fuck that

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Id sue the shit out of my employer

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i am in favour of a the show must go on / same shit different day as a temporary fix

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Had plowsof wasting community funds

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Thanks for sharing

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > i am in favour of a the show must go on / same shit different day as a temporary fix

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 2-4 weeks. Max

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Not same show for an eternity

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Ok, what will we do?

< c​trej:matrix.org > plowsof, would you be willing to use a HW wallet for payouts in the next 4 weeks?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Core will handle it :D.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > can we get to merging now?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > plowsof, would you be willing to use a HW wallet for payouts in the next 4 weeks?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > No, but ill make him

< r​brunner7:monero.social > How much, give or take, would be those payouts in the next 4 weeks?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 0 right now

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the last payout(s) totalled about 600 xmr (that was a month~ ish)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Building as donations come in

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Potentially all of the proposals that are posted

< nioc > it's more holding donations for the CCSs that will be approved

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > so the CCS has some serious throughput when people are achieving milestones and not letting things accumilate

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > were not talking about moving the 2000 xmr to this wallet. This is for current proposals and fast payouts.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > and yeah fkn right plowsof hides shit for 60days. Hes not that brave

< selsta > so who creates the new wallet that gets all the funds from the proposals? that has to be solved too, not only the person who does the hot wallet payouts

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > on who holds funds long term: if not luigi again, then who is the question - there aren't many (if any) members that are trusted by the multiple parts of the community

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > temporarily i think plowsof is trusted by mostly everyone to hold funds - but this decision is still up to core

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Multisig

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Long term

< luigi1111 > ofrnxmr:monero.social Luigi disappeared forn3 months <= plz stop the gross misreprentations

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > it is also his job :D

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > New wallet = plowsof

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > BinaryFate through RINO or some multisig schema

< binaryFate > <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> temporarily i think plowsof is trusted by mostly everyone to hold funds - but this decision is still up to core <-- I disagree this is up to core

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > <l​uigi1111> ofrnxmr:monero.social Luigi disappeared forn3 months <= plz stop the gross misreprentations

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > a bit more than 60 days?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > my pgp key is .. 6 days old and remains not compromised (these are my qualifications)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > <b​inaryFate> <h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> temporarily i think plowsof is trusted by mostly everyone to hold funds - but this decision is still up to core <-- I disagree this is up to core

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > I disagree. This is up to us

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Plowsof has been doing a good job and I think is s trusted by many people of the community

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > fluffypony:

< luigi1111 > I didn't disappear either.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > The money did 😆

< nioc > please ofrn

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Let's put Vik from cake wallet

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > im not trolling or joking.

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > without the intention to put plowsof under pressure, I think he is trustworthy for the new short term wallet

< r​brunner7:monero.social > One important question would be whether plowsof seems themselves able to take the responsibility. They could have doubts, which I would understand.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > Core is da boss and i am subservient !

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > and long term multisig, if multisig is achievable in a couple month

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Community is your boss, plowsof

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > for the funds issue otherwise yeye im a slave to all

< r​brunner7:monero.social > So to share risk, still leaves the questions where new donations that come in will go?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i've only ever custodied around 23 xmr and i spent all

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Maybe for that binaryfate could use the GF security setup to create a new wallet?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > there is alot more that goes into it (the mouth begins to dry and heart pounds) if you truly consider holding a serious amount of funds for the community when i am neither anon , or have anything in place should i stop breathing

< binaryFate > I'm not comfortable piggybacking on different wallet when we have different requirements on how frequently to access funds

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > +1 to bf

< r​ucknium:monero.social > I don't think plowsof wants to do it. plowsof, answer directly: do you want this responsibility?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Too many wallets already, big target

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > So who?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > he probably shouldnt want to.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > the question is "will you"

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Strange reasoning

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i would like more responsibility, but my first rodeo should not be 'the CCS wallet'

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we're talking about a guy that can't delete spam comments/issues here

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > everyone wants 2600xmr in their wallet.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > not plowsof. hes selfless

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > from the ccs gitlab

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 6 month terms repeatedly. Doesnt even claim his own milestones on time

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > has there been any other volunteers?

< r​ucknium:monero.social > Lovera: Probably no one. Thinking like a game theorist: You need at least three groups/individuals to be satisfied with the arrangement. Donors, workers, and the escrower(s). There may be no arrangement that satisfies all three now. So go to direct funding with no escrow.

< r​ucknium:monero.social > And we need people to vet proposals, too. That's 4 groups.

< s​packle_xmr:matrix.org > Of the pending payouts, is it true that one or two represent the majority of the funds? If one or two payments could be done alongside filling a smaller CCS hotwallet it might be less stressful. Not sure how workable that would be.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > has there been any other volunteers?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Selsta :D

< c​trej:matrix.org > we gotta be careful not to overburden plowof, don't want him to break under the pressure

< selsta > no

< r​ucknium:monero.social > You have an asymmetric information problem and a collective action problem. Solve the game!

< c​trej:matrix.org > therefor it should be strictly a temporary messure

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Jk. I dont think selsta can be made to do it

< nioc > r​ucknium please do :)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Otherwise id have nominated selsta over Plowsof.

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > Rucknium: on direct funding: would this mean proposers would directly receive funds even before milestones are complete?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Scam central

< r​ucknium:monero.social > hinto: Yes.

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > i have a bad history of voting in favor of ccs's that do jack all after getting merged :)

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Even if ... that's no shorttime solution for the payouts that are due, no?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Payoute due = come from generalfund right now

< r​ucknium:monero.social > hinto: So nothing would change with the direct funding :)

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > plowsof: do you want to do this? if not, we need another volunteer to step forward to handle this. otherwise I'd argue binary fate is probably the most qualified

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the work in progress proposals are covered by the general fund / have already been paid out (if someone did not know)

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Ah, ok

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > plowsof: will you take on this responsibility? if not, we need another volunteer to step forward. Cringe

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > no i would rather gain responsibility in other areas first

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > my alt will be unbreakable when my 4 year plan is complete and world domination will be possible

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Is that to me, or x3nu?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > yes xenu/ofrnxmr

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > who is plowsof? can't even be trusted to delete spam comments from the ccs, now he custodies the CCS? lolool

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Cant even MAKE plowsof take the money.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > i vote plowsof x2

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > lol!

< r​ucknium:monero.social > FYI, binaryFate is already escrowing the bounties.monero.social funds unless something has changed. That info was posted in GitHub a while ago.

< c​trej:matrix.org > plowsof got imposter syndrome

< binaryFate > correct, I escrow the bounties wallet and perform payouts as directed to me (usually by plowsof)

< r​brunner7:monero.social > But here we usually speak about a considerably lower volume of XMR, right?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 2 general funds, bounties, and has ~2000 of ccs refund money in safe keeping.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > also deploys getmonero. Too much for 1 person

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i would consider the bounties wallet , but 'i made 1 offline transaction last week' and again, pgp key is 6 days old

< binaryFate > yes, bounties wallet is currently ~130xmr IIRC.

< nioc > IMHO the dev proposals that need to go to funding are selsta, jeffro and also dangerousfreedom if theirs is now ready. That is a total of 301xmr without adjusting for any xmr price change

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > the bounties wallet payouts range from 0.1 ... 0.3 xmr all the way up to 25~

< nioc > there are others pending ofc

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Merge merge and merge

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > 2 weeks no merge = are we doing retroactive now?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Or can selsta stop working til we get our shit together

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Hypothetical

< selsta > I continue to work normal and assume it would be retroactive

< selsta > 2 weeks reotriactive

< r​brunner7:monero.social > This all seems to be quite some search for the least bad solution.

< c​trej:matrix.org > it has to be retroactive

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > The least bad solution

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > no problemo with retro for selsta

< r​brunner7:monero.social > No, I mean quite in general, to find a way to manage the CCS wallet(s)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Is for plowsof to do it for us.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Thanks plowsof!

< midipoet > This might be controversial, but as a short term solution can we not use a custodial account at somewhere like Kraken? This will solve the immediate Opsec issue and also provide us some time to organise properly.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Dont worry, only 2-4 weeks to avoid a wrench attack

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > lmao

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > but laws and stuff

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we're talking about monopoly money here

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Interesting idea. But then who will manage that Kraken account.

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > opsec issue is 100% funneled into that accounts password now

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > -policy ftw

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > guarding a single password is definitely simpler though

< c​trej:matrix.org > kraken has 2fa with aegis otp, but its not that much better

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Ok. Dont worry. "plowsof" wont do it.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > But it will get done

< selsta > there's a risk of Kraken locking the account due to large inflow / outflow of funds, probably get flagged by some algorithm.. plus we would still need a view key for the CCS wallet to see the status of funded proposals

< midipoet > hinto.janaiyo: sure, plus some 2FA security measures. It's not ideal, but maybe will allow us to develop a more hardened process for this, instead of just lumping it on someone that may well just become another target (providing the CCS was targeted).

< midipoet > selsta: maybe Localmonero might provide them, if we chose them?

< r​brunner7:monero.social > I think our most immediate bottleneck is trustworthy persons that also are ready to take the responsibility

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk: would have to comment on that

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > No lol. U dont want it on localmonero lolol

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Im not even that crazy

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > doxxed actually makes the person more credible.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > oh

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Then maybe Majestic Bank :)

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > being doxxed*

< selsta > let's try to find a solution that doesn't involve a third party service

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > plenty of doxxed scammers around here

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > The biggest are doxxed on purpose as a way to give the appearance of trust

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > let's just foist this on doug.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Doug had like 10kxmr in his iphone cake wallet

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > hes doing fine

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > has*

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we have a public relations issue that Rucknium brought up "we did it wrong, we'll do it better in the short term and fix it with multisig in the future" which needs to be handled also

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > > doxxed actually makes the person more credible.

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > and also makes the person more prone to 5$ wrench attack!?

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > with 4 mins left in the meeting, i think thrown enough ideas out there? plenty of food for thought for Core?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Yes

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Now

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > selsta

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > merge

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Dangerousfreedom

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > merge

< selsta > we can't merge without having a wallet?

< selsta > :D

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Kaya

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > merge

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > merged into our hearts

< nioc > adopt a dev

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > a wrench attack can happen regardless. I am not volunteering because I am an anon with an anime girl avatar. I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me lol

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > <s​elsta> we can't merge without having a wallet?

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Ill use your donation addresss :D

< plowsof > we have nothing in concrete but i feel a happy emotion inside, this is all that matters

< r​brunner7:monero.social > I wonder how we will look back to this all in a year or so ...

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Fondly

< plowsof > when multisig didnt exist,, simpler times

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > it made monero a family again

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > orfn also add jeffro256 to mergelist

< selsta > +1

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > +1

< binaryFate > I don't think you should expect a magical solution from Core. In that context core and core members at most can be tools for the community to use, not much more.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Noted 👌

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Wise words

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > ok understood

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And ty, bf, for helping with ccs payouts since the hack

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > merge/retrofund the monero-core/seraphis devs

< h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org > plowsof: community meeting every week temporarily? lots of things to sort out

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > plowsof is out of ccs too :D

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Merge plowsof

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > i forgot about that asshole

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > Just to be sure, should l ask for payment for the first milestone? Luigi

< b​tclovera:matrix.org > I'm driving

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Er ... and if we merge anything new for the CCS, say again where will the donations go? Do we have that already sorted out? I'm a bit confused now.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we have nothing sorted out rbrunner!

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Ok, now I feel better :)

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > i have no idea what is going on, but im blaming plowsof

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > +1 so we need another meeting

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > No

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > We need another meeting anyway

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > We need a solution today

< nioc > meeting will not end until a solution is found

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Plowsof, get out here. Stop hiding

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > (plowsof = temp solution)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > nexr meeting > long term solution

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > the most logical short term solution is to have a doxxed, long term xmr supporter hold the funds.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Minus the doxxed and long term

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Some of those ppl are terrible

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Thus, the empty set

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > binaryfate create another wallet and luigi to hold the secondary wallet, (with public relations efforts to ensure the secondary wallet is more secure) and we can just pretend it never happened while we work on multisig

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > im not ok with that

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And we need to change merge list

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > cuz at least 1 dev isnt either

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Doesnt want their money over there.

< c​trej:matrix.org > no kicking the issue down the road plowsof

< c​trej:matrix.org > chances are that if we used the "old" solutions as "temporary" new solutions they stick around longer then we want them to

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > i think binaryfate is the most logical temporary solution.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > If we use luigi or BF, yep.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > if bF fucks up, we could lose a lot

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > No reason for him to do bounties either

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And gf should be a multisig

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > yeah. he already holds the gf wallet lol

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > but there is no better idea

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > and if there is, im waiting

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > 2/9 multisig obviously

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > How is it a good idea to expose the gf

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And have bf be more active?

< c​trej:matrix.org > x3nu with a ledger would be a better idea then piling it onto bf

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > > The best short term solution may be direct funding to workers' XMR wallets.

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > if it's impossible to find someone, maybe we should do how rucknium suggests, but only until next meeting

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > > The best short term solution may be direct funding to workers' XMR wallets.

< s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org > if it's impossible to find someone, maybe we should do how rucknium suggests, but only until next meeting

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > i would literally do it too but I don't expect you guys to trust me so I am not suggesting it

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Direct funding = prefunding.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > if we did that, every proposal should be retroactive

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > that's why i think a longstanding member who has had experience holding funds is the best route forward temporarily

< nioc > there are certainly some CCSs that can be directly funded but not all

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > > i would literally do it too but I don't expect you guys to trust me so I am not suggesting it

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > That's why > plowsof

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > he doesn't want to do it lol

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > precisely

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > and he shouldn't be expected to just because he admins chat rooms

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Thats why i suggest him over you

< nioc > a single person would need a backup because of those buses

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > He doesnt admin chat rooms

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > some day, just have no experience of securely handling funds (and i feel hungry)

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > scott and sgp do

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > five finger discounts are tempting

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Plowsof is mrls gopher, among other things

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Hes not supposed to deal with bounties, but he does

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > His job is ccs coordinator.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > And cant coordinate when the $ is missing for 60days and "trusted" core members dont say anything

< selsta > I would prefer over the CCS instead of direct funding

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > we risk turning our heroes into gollum

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Selsta would be rich rich with direct funding :D

< r​brunner7:monero.social > Yes, I think those direct funding ideas are not much more than a distraction. Easy as an idea to come up with, but utterly unworkable.

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > "please stop sending me monero!"

< selsta > lol

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > i'd be tempted to take luigis yacht out for an extended vacation

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > Plowsof, you're not very convincing

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > you dont even collect milestones

< r​brunner7:monero.social > I commented that already on Reddit: I see the CCS as an important cornerstone of our "culture", of our "identity". More than a simple tool to pay people.

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > training, experience, back up plans incase of death are not in place for myself to be a serious contender

< p​lowsof:matrix.org > telling people smarter than me they don't deserver 15$ an hour is something i need in my life

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > god we are boned

< l​ordx3nu:matrix.org > see you all next week

< o​frnxmr:monero.social > k. See yas next week

< plowsof > thank you all for attending! can end it here

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[umma08]

Can we close this issue and open up the next meeting issue please. Thanks.